ODROID-C3

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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby meveric » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:58 am

HardKernel never disclosed their plans about new releases. A couple of people that are deeply rooted within development are getting samples of new boards shortly (a few weeks) before they are released. Aside from that HardKernel never announced if they are working on a new board or not.
You have to sit and wait until HardKernel announced something new. But it's likely that they are already working on something new, if it's an ODROID-C series or something completely different is hard to tell. HardKernel tend to surprise us with these kind of things. No one expected the ODROID C1 (price competitor to RPi with so much more power) when it came out and the C2 was the first of it's kind (arm64, 4k resolution, h265 4k decoding, etc.) as well.
Normally HardKernel is very good to pleasantly surprise people, but right now only thing we can do is sit and wait, and have some kind of wish-lists that HardKernel might consider :)
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:49 am

My opinion is that the C2 launch was very close to perfect. A month before the official announcement, HardKernel publicly sent engineering samples to members of the community. Many issues were identified before the product launch thereby improving the "out of box" experience for customers at release. Most important was that the public announcement allowed the community to interact with each other openly rather than in secret. This led to level of co-operation and exchange of information never before seen in the ARM SBC community before a product launch. Finally, it also allowed the community to gain experience with the device making for an unprecedented level of "day 1" support available to customers.

It is my hope that future boards follow this example. This approach seems superior to the confusion and challenges of everyone just "waking up to a new board one day". Its also preferable to the strategy of pre-announcing your product several months/years in advance (kickstarter) and testing everyone's patience waiting for availability.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby g000444555 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:13 pm

The last two posts are very enlightening indeed! I'm copying them to my ODROID notes. Thank you crashoverride and meveric very much!
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby fretzke » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:51 pm

Having read through all the previous posts, I do agree a successor to the C2 should
  • run on passive cooling
  • use as little power as possible
  • while still being capable of hardware decoding current video formats
  • being equiped with sufficient RAM (2GB at least, the more the better)
  • fast I/O ports (USB3, real GB LAN)

Having a more powerfull set up on an alternative board like the XU4 seems like the ideal offer to me. That board should pack a faster CPU over the small board in the first place.

Having said this I'm surprised nobody mentioned the new i.mx8 family yet. The large configuration has already been released and features a quad A53 with a dual A72 and a seemingly decent GPU and VPU. Even better it also has on chip USB3, GBe and SATA controllers. I think that would make a great "XU5". If you flip through the introduction presentation you'll also find a smaller configuration with a quad A35 which can still decode HEVC in hardware and also has on chip (!) USB3 and GBe. That might be a great base for a C3. (Google for "i.mx8x" . The original presentation seems to be removed, but you'll easily find screenshots of the slides.)

It is only a side note but actually looks like a major point to me: both chips are software compatible. If I get it right they are based on the same architecture in such a way, they can run on the same drivers. Now wouldn't it be great if there was one kernel and OS which could run on all current Odroids alike? I'm curious for your opinions!
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby emu_can » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:17 pm

If the xu4 price is lower than $60, we can call it C3! :D
My xu4 runs the kernel 4.9.8 LTS very nicely now. The exynos-5422 is still very competitive and strong even it was born over 2 years ago.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:20 pm

fretzke wrote:Having said this I'm surprised nobody mentioned the new i.mx8 family yet.

The i.MX8 family does look interesting. Adding it to the Odroid "C" family would probably be confusing for customers though since its an entirely different vendor and hardware from the current C0, C1, and C2.

The i.MX8M is not available until 4Q2017. Yet it has enough interesting features that I do hope somebody, if not HardKernel, offers a development board based on it.
http://media.nxp.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=254228&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2233904
The i.MX 8 multi-sensory enablement kit (MEK) is now available to prototype i.MX 8M systems. Limited sampling of i.MX 8M will begin in the second quarter of 2017, and general availability is expected in the fourth quarter of 2017.


http://www.nxp.com/products/microcontrollers-and-processors/arm-processors/i.mx-applications-processors/i.mx-8-processors/i.mx-8m-family-industry-leading-audio-voice-and-video-processing:i.MX8M
4 Cortex-A53
Modern GPU supporting Vulkan
Dual display support (MIPI-DSI and HDMI 2.0)
4K UHD HDR (DolbyVision, HDR10, HLG) (HEVC, h264, MPEG 2,4, VP8,9, VC1)
6 I2S (audio) with DSD512 support
Dual MIPI-CSI camera support
LP/DDR4
Dual USB 3.0
Dual PCIe (1 lane per)
Gigabit Ethernet
4 UART (5Mbps)
4 I2C
3 SPI
4 PWM
Cortex-M4 processor (presumably for realtime/low power tasks)

The "catch" with i.MX processors has always been cost. Hopefully, it will be competitively priced.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby fretzke » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:14 pm

crashoverride wrote:The i.MX8M is not available until 4Q2017.

That is only partly true. The MEK you already mentioned, does offer some interesting feats if you read the fine print:

EARLY DEVELOPMENT ACCESS
The i.MX 8 multi-sensory evaluation kit (MEK) is available now to prototype i.MX 8 and i.MX 8X systems.

From http://www.nxp.com/assets/documents/data/en/fact-sheets/IMX8FAMFS.pdf
The MEK is also already available for the i.MX 8M (see http://www.nxp.com/assets/documents/data/en/fact-sheets/i.MX8M-FS.pdf)

The key words are available now and including i.MX 8M ind i.MX 8X. Developing a new board does also require some time after all.

NXP obviously invested some efforts to remove an early presentation that was publicly released before. It showed the whole chip family and time frame including an MX8X, based on the not yet available Cortex A35. Fortunately somebody took screenshots during the public presentation.

This chip would be my personal favourite for a new SBC since it looks promising in regards of power consumption and thermal restrictions. Still nearly all the above specs of the MX8M apply to it – unfortunately except 4k HDR decode. You can't get everything... :D
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:53 pm

crashoverride wrote:The i.MX8M is not available until 4Q2017.

The importance of that is that NXP is currently being acquired by Qualcomm. It is therefore necessary to ensure product availability for such far reaching schedules especially for parts that are not yet even sampling (2Q17).
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby fretzke » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:05 pm

One can only hope the management will not drop development of a promising product secconds before its launch. ;) Now that would be a major disappointment.
But actually I was wondering if I overlooked something. The package looks far more attractive than a S912 or the Rockchip from earlier posts. Is there a major drawback with the i.MX8 I didn't notice?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby memeka » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:16 am

the i.MX8 chip looks quite similar to the S905

* same A53 quad-core CPU
* GPU is vivante 9000 lite, which performance-wise looks similar to mali 450, but it is vulkan-compatible
* similar VPU (h265, h264, 4k...)
* hdmi 2.0a (4k)

on the plus side, it's got USB 3.0
on the minus side, vpu drivers status is unknown, and this could be a big problem... (unless there will be a time when both c2 and imx8 would be available until drivers mature)
overall, not sure if adding a new platoform/vendor just for USB3.0 will be worth the development issues (having to support exynos, aml and nxp kernels).
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:14 am

HDR10 and DolbyVision is something I hope to see on the C3, I imagine Vulcan will be utilized more by the C3 release as well.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby hugolp » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:57 pm

memeka wrote:the i.MX8 chip looks quite similar to the S905

* same A53 quad-core CPU
* GPU is vivante 9000 lite, which performance-wise looks similar to mali 450, but it is vulkan-compatible
* similar VPU (h265, h264, 4k...)
* hdmi 2.0a (4k)

on the plus side, it's got USB 3.0
on the minus side, vpu drivers status is unknown, and this could be a big problem... (unless there will be a time when both c2 and imx8 would be available until drivers mature)
overall, not sure if adding a new platoform/vendor just for USB3.0 will be worth the development issues (having to support exynos, aml and nxp kernels).


Agreed, specially because when we finally get a xu5 people will be a lot less worried about the C line having usb3.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby nobe » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:16 pm

crashoverride wrote:The "catch" with i.MX processors has always been cost. Hopefully, it will be competitively priced.

i totally agree with that.
But i'm not hopefull at all ... so far, IMX-based SoCs never targetted cheap set-up box market, but rather industrial ones

Edit
another interesting thing about this soc is the GPU which supports OpenGL 3.0
http://www.nxp.com/products/microcontro ... MX8-SERIES
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby fretzke » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:32 pm

memeka wrote:overall, not sure if adding a new platoform/vendor just for USB3.0 will be worth the development issues (having to support exynos, aml and nxp kernels).

Well to me it's THE tipping point and the only reason I don't order a C2 right away (despite it being out of stock of course :lol:). What's the point of having GB Lan anyway if you got no means to read/write the data fast enough?

Unfortunately there is no low power GBe & USB3 board I am aware of right now. Since the step from S905 to 912 seems rather marginal, maybe somebody here knows if Amlogic is working on a SOC comparable to thi i.mx8x?

An A35 quad core with USB3 and GBe sure would rock!

hugolp wrote:when we finally get a xu5

Is there any indication we can hope for that except the base SOC not being the most recent?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby campbell » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:30 am

fretzke wrote:What's the point of having GB Lan anyway if you got no means to read/write the data fast enough?


Streaming media, bulk data processing that results in less written to disk than ingested, lots of reasons. Remember that USB3 ports, on the XU4 at least, have an additional power price to pay vs USB2 even when using a USB2 device in that port. I really don't want to see the C3 backslide on power consumption vs the C2.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:41 am

fretzke wrote:What's the point of having GB Lan anyway if you got no means to read/write the data fast enough?

I use it for mounting iSCSI volumes where the storage is on a NAS. Others remote mount NFS volumes.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby fretzke » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:17 am

campbell wrote:I really don't want to see the C3 backslide on power consumption vs the C2.

Totally agreed! That's why I'm hoping for an A35 core.

Do you have a source for the increased power consumption of USB3 over USB2? I only found sources stating the opposite. E.g. USB 3.0 vs USB 2.0: A quick reference…
Learning more on the background would be very interesting.

Your examples of uses all base on another computer or NAS sending data at high speed likely consuming additional power. If a low power C3 had a USB3 port, you could hook a disk to it, keep it running 24/7 and turn it into a home level NAS. Wouldn't that be an improvement? 8-)
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby campbell » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:51 am

My numbers are just based on plugging a device such as a USB2 Ethernet dongle into the USB2 and USB3 ports on the XU4 and watching the power consumption on the Odroid Smart Power. I don't remember what the difference was exactly but I want to say it was on the order of 50-100 mW. I don't know how general that finding is, or whether it's just how it works with the USB3 hub solution on the XU4, but it does mean that the C3 should not copy what the XU4 does if we care about power consumption.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:57 am

I would rather have higher power consumption than reduced performance (A35 vs A53 vs A72). All my C2s are line powered so power is never a concern. For power sensitive applications, I use a micro-controller. The C2 and a future C3 would be way overkill for any power sensitive scenario. The C0 (with A5) already serves the power conscious.

fretzke wrote:If a low power C3 had a USB3 port, you could hook a disk to it, keep it running 24/7 and turn it into a home level NAS.

There are very low cost (and low power) x86 boards that are much better suited for the task. The advantage that a product like HardKernel's Cloud Shell offers is portability. My NAS interest is performance and redundancy which requires multiple drives and bonded network interfaces.

While I understand that everyone has different needs and different priorities, my vote is always for more performance (big boy CPU and GPU) and more capabilities (IOMMU, virtualization, OpenCL/Vulkan, etc). The S905 is quite impressive for its cost. The S912 would add an extra gig of RAM (for virtualization), extra CPUs (for compute), OpenCL (for compute), and Vulkan (more software is compatible). It does, however, lack an IOMMU.

Doing development, I find its more convenient to plug a USB drive in and use that for on-device compilation. This is mainly due to kernel development since it takes a lot of space (gigabytes). USB3 would be beneficial for this or any of the countless other scenarios where a single drive is attached. Currently though, its more CPU bound than IO bound. Those requiring USB3 cameras or capture devices would likely benefit more. On the XU4, USB3 plays a more important role since it is what allows a Gigabit Network interface. I would like USB3 on C3, but I could live without it.

[edit]
I guess the shorter way to say it is "I want a C3 to do things a C2 can't just as a C2 can do things a C1 can't". A modern GPU allows that.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby campbell » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:08 am

The C2 has a lower idle power draw than the C1+ by about 100 mW, and has twice the performance at the peak end, at least in my limited testing. I don't know about the C0 but I expect it's similar to the C1+ for idle power draw once you've shut off the USB bus on both devices. I'd hate to be limited to the C0 as "the" product for power conscious use cases, if it actually does worse than the C2.

That being said, isn't the XU line supposed to be the high-performance, don't-care-about-power line of products?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby campbell » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:16 am

crashoverride wrote:For power sensitive applications, I use a micro-controller. The C2 and a future C3 would be way overkill for any power sensitive scenario.

There are a lot of situations where you need floating point performance, some RAM, and a POSIX environment, which rules out a microcontroller, while still being power conscious. There needs to be a range of solutions. The C2 meets my existing needs quite well. Yes it's overkill on the compute side, but there isn't anything "lesser" on the market that has the same capabilities without actually drawing more power.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:19 am

campbell wrote:There are a lot of situations where you need floating point performance, some RAM, and a POSIX environment, which rules out a microcontroller, while still being power conscious.

The line gets blurrier every day. The Cortex-M line has become quite capable with the M7 and above. Even the M4F has a FPU.
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-m

Lately, I have been having fun with the ESP8266. Its more capable than people may think. Almost all of the RPi projects I have seen can be replaced by a ESP8266 (built in WiFi makes all the difference). I have even done accelerometer, magnetomer, and compass motion fusion (floating point heavy) on it without breaking a sweat. Linux (and its POSIX environment) are contraindicated where power consumption is a priority.

Getting back on topic, if power is a concern for C3, I can always use bigger batteries. However, there is nothing you can add to the board to make it run faster or have more features of the type noted in my prior post. With micro-controllers covering more of the power sensitive scenarios, it would seem more important that the C3 focus on "better, faster, stronger" rather than "slower, more frugal".

This is just my opinion. I expect everyone will have their own opinion on the matter. Since this is a "feedback" thread, I am stating what I would like and why I would like it.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby campbell » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:38 am

Linux (and its POSIX environment) are contraindicated where power consumption is a priority.

I think the existence of Android (and iOS for that matter w/r POSIX) would disagree with you :)
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby campbell » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:40 am

For the record, I don't want slower and more frugal. I want faster and not less frugal. Bonus points if it's more frugal when not using all features at once, as has been the trend. I just want the trend to continue. The XU line is there for the much faster and less frugal use case.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:20 am

campbell wrote:I think the existence of Android (and iOS for that matter w/r POSIX) would disagree with you

Actually, they both support my premise. Inside both devices you will find micro-controllers used to make power consumption manageable.

campbell wrote:For the record, I want faster and not less frugal.

Also for the record, the Cortex-A35 design is more power efficient because it has less complexity. This also makes it slower to an identically clocked A53. That is the trade-off. You can have faster and more power hungry or slower and more power efficient. The A53 is the compromise between both. If Linux ever gets HMP support, then the big.LITTLE designs offer both processor complexes to choose from.

A new C3 that is less powerful than the previous model would likely be just as attractive as a new iPhone(tm)/Android that is less powerful than the previous model. Since the max clock rate can be lowered (governor), a desired power level should be user selectable even if massive A72's are used. This should effectively make "power consumption" a moot argument.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:09 am

Yep, a downclocked A72 is efficient and still quite a bit faster than an A53 at similar power consumption.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby campbell » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:02 am

I never said I wanted an A35. I want the A72 as long as, when downclocked, with USB ports shut off, the board draws 1.2 watts or less, as the current A53 version does. Don't care how much it draws at the upper end.

It's not fair to say we have a choice between "less for less" and "more for more". I want "more for the same or less, with a newer chip", which is exactly what we got with the C2, vs the C1.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby emk2203 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:07 pm

My wishlist for a ODROID-C3:

  • Keep the C2 / Raspberry Pi form factor
    The credit-card size of the SBCs differentiates them. If you don't need them that small, you don't loose anything. For larger boards, you have other choices (Intel).
  • same for interface placement and connector compatibility, small changes not an issue
    The community is smaller here, and it makes sense to reuse peripherals, HATs and cases from the much larger Raspberry Pi project community. If I want to use a Nextcloud Western Digital Box for my project with a C2, it's easy. With other form factors, I would be out of luck or the implementation would be more difficult and take more time.
  • instead of 4 USB2 ports, make it 2 USB3 and 2 USB2 ports, or 4 USB3 ports if this doesn't impact the idle power draw.
    USB2 is limiting I/O, for quick data transfers please have USB3 option.
  • if space allows, a USB header or port on the board.
    This could be used for WLAN adapters as well, and is a good compromise to have WLAN modular, but still "on board". You could sacrifice the SDXC port for it if neccessary.
  • passive cooling, fanless
    Usage of a fan can be very often a show stopper. Like Adblocker with pi-hole project for example. No one wants a noisy fan in a quiet living room. XU4 is really bad here.
  • keep the Gigabit Ethernet
  • eMMC 5.0 storage
  • realistic path for good drivers and mainline kernel
    based on history of the suppliers/adaptability of current software to a new chip
  • audio shield option, audio out could be purely on the HAT
  • price between C2 and XU4
    C is cheap or affordable line, X(U) is eXpensive line.
  • hardware 4k HEVC 10-bit video capable
    future-proofing; looks like the new standard
  • RTC, at least optional
  • 2 GB memory or more, maybe several variants 1G/2G/4G?
  • SPI-NOR flash device or just a connector so one can be added (thanks to @crashoverride)
    boot option without eMMC or SDHC is a huge win for network boot or in case you want an emergency rescue.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby indium » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:50 am

POSIX is in the same position to power efficiency, as javascript is to CPU usage during web page processing.
i am as well obsessed with the idea of extremely power efficient HW, but for this to have it, one needs not posix of course, he/she needs special hw diesign intended to be low consuming, and for this it needs special mechanisms, like ACPI implemented. and strong support of it on the side of OS. because with ACPI, OS is the primary manager of power management policies. linux with posix or without it, just doesn't do well on this area. their support of acpi (hence, power efficient solutions) sucks. at least in that you hardly can expect linux supporting it on this low cost low energy SBC range. if they care at all, then this is mostly by ARM and only for their imaginable server solutions. despite acpi is not only for servers, moreover it is much more relevant for mobile or near mobile (here, power manageent is more complex). level of support of all these needed things is less than mediocre, on linux, the only system on this range, especially funny to learn that posix is something giving you power efficiency. xD and this is sad, because even if some arm board would come by some miracle, with full acpi support at the level of hw and fw, still no one could take advantage of it, because linux doesn't care to support it. and do it properly.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:34 am

emk2203 wrote:My wishlist for a ODROID-C3:

  • instead of 4 USB2 ports, make it 2 USB3 and 2 USB2 ports, or 4 USB3 ports if this doesn't impact the idle power draw.
    USB2 is limiting I/O, for quick data transfers please have USB3 option.


I was wrong, disregard.
Last edited by rooted on Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby campbell » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:35 am

Again, there needs to be a range of solutions. The C line, historically, has been in the middle of the range. Yes, for SOME applications, you can go to the extreme of giving up POSIX and developing a microcontroller solution, or ASIC for that matter, but a lot of the time it's just not practical. The fact that it works NOW, WITH posix, suggests no one should be forced to give up POSIX in order to stay within the same power budget on a newer generation of hardware. Particularly if the power draw has been DECREASING over time. Why shouldn't that trend continue?
Last edited by campbell on Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby campbell » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:39 am

Also let's not forget that power consumption isn't just about battery life or whatever, it's also about heat. If you need to put a fan on it, people won't want to use it in a media centre application. So there is definitely reason to keep the C line's mean power consumption low enough that it doesn't need a fan, and the XU line can run its fan in another room all day long.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:42 am

rooted wrote:I was wrong

Image
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:58 am

crashoverride wrote:
rooted wrote:I was wrong

Image

LMAO, figuratively ;)
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby fretzke » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:19 pm

Thank you guys for the great responses! I had never expected such an interesting discussion on a plain wish list.

I'm more with @campbell regarding the power/heat topic but have seen some very interesting points here on efficient CPU set up.

Just since nobody reacted to this:
Maybe somebody here knows if Amlogic is working on a successor to the S905? Any details available?
fretzke wrote:
hugolp wrote:
when we finally get a xu5

Is there any indication we can hope for that except the base SOC not being the most recent?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:24 pm

fretzke wrote:Thank you guys for the great responses! I had never expected such an interesting discussion on a plain wish list.

I'm more with @campbell regarding the power/heat topic but have seen some very interesting points here on efficient CPU set up.

Just since nobody reacted to this:
Maybe somebody here knows if Amlogic is working on a successor to the S905? Any details available?
fretzke wrote:
hugolp wrote:
when we finally get a xu5

Is there any indication we can hope for that except the base SOC not being the most recent?

I don't know what they have coming but the S912 already came out.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby fretzke » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:38 pm

I thought S905 and 912 are supposed to be the small and big chip of the same generation, aren't they?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby FbS » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:19 pm

The C1 was a nice machine to tinker with.
The C2 is a very decent PC replacement for many low-end usages. It has the big advantage of running on a couple of watts, so it can be kept online all day long with no significant impact on the electricity bill.

However, if there is a need for a C2 (and the lots of gadgets that you can plug into it !!!), I think the next generation should look more after what the MediaTek X30 chip has to offer. Even if it makes a board more expensive than C2, because it will still cost much less than the PC it will replace.

Tinkering does not need huge amount of power. Development and PC replacement does. So I think there is room for a low-cost board (C2 is nice as it is), and a maybe a little more expensive one, but with added capabilities for another kind of uses.

It should still share as much as possible of C2's gadgets, but 8GB of ram, USB 3.0 ports (many) should definitely be part of the game (and still passive cooling, and little power consumption to keep it online all day long !). The rest can be added...
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:36 pm

8GB of RAM is not going to happen, we will be lucky to get 3.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby elatllat » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:15 am

rooted wrote:8GB of RAM is not going to happen, we will be lucky to get 3.

Yah 8 is likely going to be used in Samsung/MediaTek products only at first but we might be lucky enough to get 6 like the OnePlus 3 from June 2016.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby nobe » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:10 am

do you guys think that much RAM could fit in a 40$ dev board in early 2017 ?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby fretzke » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:55 am

FbS wrote:Even if it makes a board more expensive than C2

While I don't agree with this statement and don't see why there should be a large scale "XU" if the next "C" already was on par with a full scale PC, I think he was clear on this point.

Not sure if he is aware of how much more expensive a newest-generation-10nm-deca-core-nearly-3ghz board with 8GB RAM would be. (HINT @Fbs: Compare with the Inforce 6640 which is "only" a current gen quad core 4GB ;) )
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby FbS » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:55 am

What costs 400$ today will cost 200$ next year, and 100$ the year after. Specially in these kind of processors, made primarily for the mobile phone and set top box market, that can not be sold at thousand $ at the end of the day.

I'm sure there will be a 2Ghz+ A72/A73 (+A53 maybe) stuff with 8GB ram, below 100$ in 2018...

And 10nm will be cheap when they will roll out the 8nm or 5nm...

Yes, it might be more a replacement for the XU, rather than the C2, but however, the point is, these low-consumption nano-computers are likely to make PC obsolete in many applications.

I just purchased a C2 for my aeroclub. We used a PC to check weather forecast, file flight plans, and other aviation ressources. All that requires is a web browser and a printer. The PC was long to boot, always full of viruses, or messed up by users, etc....The C2 will do the job instead starting next week, it will be always on (we will just shut down the screen), and will require much less administration since if you don't have root password, you can't mess as much as with a PC. Worst case, I will reflash the disk with the backed-up image, and that will be it.

However, I also understand people that want to develop code, or make other more serious applications, that 2Gb of ram is too low...and more horsepower is always welcome - if that's possible, and it will soon be, in an "always on" mode, and fanless...
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:33 am

I do not expect we will see 8GB boards under $100 in the 2017/18 time frame. My basis for this conclusion is an increase in DRAM prices (as noted in C2 out-of-stock post) and a lack of mainstream demand (tablets, phones).
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby emu_can » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:42 pm

Yes! DRAM price is crazy. 8gbyte ddr3 DIMM module was $50 in last August from BestBuy. But it is $80 now.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:36 pm

emu_can wrote:Yes! DRAM price is crazy. 8gbyte ddr3 DIMM module was $50 in last August from BestBuy. But it is $80 now.

Supply and demand can be a real bitch :/
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby FbS » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:25 pm

What comes up, must go down.....at least one day...

In the long term, moore's law still applies...

Yes, that story of supply and demand is a real bitch.

Crashoverride : you underestimate how programmers can be good at wasting ressources when they have them...
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:18 pm

I doubt it, he's a pretty good developer ;)
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby FbS » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:57 pm

rooted wrote:I doubt it, he's a pretty good developer ;)

Yep, but most aren't
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